\"You can\'t prove God doesn\'t exist!\"
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| #1 Posted 6 months ago | Reply | People claim God exists. Atheists see that there is absolutely no evidence for that, but theists shrug and say that there is no evidence that God doesn't exist and so says theists are just as correct as atheists.
so if there are 99 theistic beliefs, there is 99% chance of God existing and 1% that he does not! Of course, everyone can see that this is absolutely ridiculous.
Just out of curiosity, can anyone disprove the following claims?
-Santa Claus exists.
-The invisible pink unicorn created the universe.
-There is an invisible, massless teacup orbiting the Sun. (It can orbit the sun because it doesn't follow laws of physics)
-The ghost of Elvis haunts my house.
-My hand is actually a bug with six horns.
-Hitler decided to make the greatest cake in the world instead of becoming Fuhrer 1 octillion years ago.
-God exists. |
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| #3 Posted 6 months ago | Reply | | You said yes to some things. Can you disprove those things for me? |
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| #4 Posted 6 months ago | Reply | | That opening post should be used in the oxford dictionaries definition of stupidity. |
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| #8 Posted 6 months ago | Reply | Santa Claus exists.
Time zones.The invisible pink unicorn created the universe.
You can't be invisible and pink.My hand is actually a bug with six horns.
Are you really this stupid?There is an invisible, massless teacup orbiting the Sun. (It can orbit the sun because it doesn't follow laws of physics)
Maslessness is impossible.The ghost of Elvis haunts my house.
Becuase Elvis is dead, souls is basically your mind and spirits don't stay on Earth.Hitler decided to make the greatest cake in the world instead of becoming Fuhrer 1 octillion years ago
Hitler was born on April 20, 1888 and the Earth is not 1 octillion years old. |
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| #10 Posted 6 months ago | Reply | For the sake of discussion, I'm going to try looking at this at differently than I normally would. These comments may not necessarily represent my own opinions.-Santa Claus exists.
Through observation, it can be shown that it's actually your parents. Gathering "evidence" and what-not, will show that santa didn't do of the presents stuff. Plus, your parents will admit to having made it up, and they won't lie for no good reason.-The invisible pink unicorn created the universe.
Well, yeah, if it's pink, it's not invisible... but the fact that an invisible unicorn may have made the universe? Looking at all the evidence of how it was/most likely to have been created, a unicorn will not have been physically able to create any of it, even if unicorns did exist.-There is an invisible, massless teacup orbiting the Sun. (It can orbit the sun because it doesn't follow laws of physics)
As in a normal teacup or what? Well an astronaut MAY have chucked a teacup out the shuttle, but I doubt it. I can't really disprove this, since I can't go and check it out myself.-The ghost of Elvis haunts my house.
If photographs or other similar evidence could be provided, then it could be proved. However, this can't be completely disproved, I think either.-My hand is actually a bug with six horns.
Well, you would know the answer to this one. Look at it. I'm sure it's not a bug, but for all I know, your hand may actually be bug.
Even if you don't see your hand as a bug, it may still be one. Your brain could be interpreting this bug as what you see your hand to be. Everything you see, smell, taste, whatever is regulated by your brain, right? And it's left to the interpretation of your brain? Well, it all depends on how your brain interprets it, so the reality may actually be something else to what you think. And there's no way of checking with anyone else, because they know the description of what you will say, and it will match the interpretation of their mind, regardless whether it actually is the same or not.
Darn it, I'm sorry for that philosophical bit of nonsense there. It is something I've thought about before. I hope it makes sense  -Hitler decided to make the greatest cake in the world instead of becoming Fuhrer 1 octillion years ago.
Very unlikely.
Although if you believe in re-incarnation, then it may be possible. I know that the world isn't that old, but who said that it couldn't take place on another world?-God exists.
I really can't prove or disprove this. That's a matter of faith, really.
Well, that's my shot at it, and I tried to do it as open-mindedly as possible ^_^ |
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| #12 Posted 6 months ago | Reply | So, are you talking about the Jewish/Christian God, or any god? Anyway, here are my answers:
-Santa Claus exists.
Santa Claus is a figure primary inspired by Saint Nicholas of Myra, and became a canon character after "The Night Before Christmas". Though not a physical person, he inspires good will and cheer, and serves as a means to capture the spirit of the Christmas and the Holiday Day season.
In many ways Santa Claus does exists.
-The invisible pink unicorn created the universe.
This seems pretty random, with no real reason for this statement other then to push a point.
-There is an invisible, massless teacup orbiting the Sun. (It can orbit the sun because it doesn't follow laws of physics)
Same as the one before.
-The ghost of Elvis haunts my house.
Perhaps the house held some significance to Elvis in life.
-My hand is actually a bug with six horns.
You probably should sue that surgeon that reattached your hand after that accident.
-Hitler decided to make the greatest cake in the world instead of becoming Fuhrer 1 octillion years ago.
Same as the unicorn and teacup questions.
-God exists.
Yet, again, are you speaking of the God of Israel? Or any god for that matter.
Many people who worship and pray to God, often say they can feel God, or the Holy Spirit moving through them. As well as many other spiritual people clam feeling a presence in the universe, that very well may be God. To brush aside spiritual experiences in people as superstition nonsense, seems to be a cheap way of trying to void their experiences.
As well physical perfections in the universe seem too unlikely to happen on their own. The fact that we're the right distance from the Sun, The fact that moon orbits the Earth in such a way that we always see the same side of the Moon. The fact that every life-cycle works with another life-cycle that works with a bigger life cycle. The fact we developed minds and imaginations that contemplates philosophy and intangible matters beyond the tasks of survival. The fact that so many feel the urge to reach out and call "How you there?" . . . and then feel the answer "Yes, I Am." |
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| #13 Posted 6 months ago | Reply | this always ends up in flaming.ALWAYS.
those who DO NOT believe in god, and those who do.We all have different ideas.Lets keep them to ourselves.
It would make everybody happy if a lock where to follow. |
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| #14 Posted 6 months ago, in reply to post #11 by WeirdSmells | Reply | You pulled that completely out of context... read it again.That opening post should be used in the oxford dictionaries definition of stupidity.
For making such a grand statement, you don't seem to have much elaboration on why. So your comment is null and void until you have explained why. |
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| #15 Posted 6 months ago | Reply | Maslessness is impossible.
The cup doesn't follow the laws of physics.
God doesn't follow the laws of physics.
Are you saying God is impossible? |
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| #16 Posted 6 months ago, in reply to post #15 by Henriksson | Reply | I'm guessing you're talking about the Jewish/Christian God, which unlike other gods who have physical images/forms and resides in their respective locations, he exists as a omnipresent being that is transcendent to His creation and yet immanent in relating to creation.
I found this while researching:(Thomas C Oden "The Living God: Systematic Theology Vol 1 pg 67). God's presence is continuous throughout all of creation, though it may not be revealed in the same way at the same time every where to people. At times, he may be actively present in a situation, while he may not reveal that he is present in another circumstance in some other area. The Bible reveals that God can be both present to a person in a manifest manner (Psalm 46:1, Isaiah 57:15) as well as being present in every situation in all of creation at any given time (Psalm 33:13-14). Specifically, Oden states (pg. 68-69) that the Bible shows that God can be present in every aspect of human life:
* God is naturally present in every aspect of the natural order, in every level of causality, every fleeting moment and momentous event of natural history...(Psalm 8:3, Isaiah 40:12, Nahum 1:3)
* God is actively present in a different way in every event in history as provident guide of human affairs (Psalm 48:7)
* God is in a special way attentively present to those who call upon his name, intercede for others, who adore God, who petition, who pray earnestly for forgiveness (Gospel of Matthew 18:19, Book of Acts 17:27)
* God is judicially present in moral awareness, through conscience (Psalm 48:1-2, Epistle to the Romans 1:20)
* God is bodily present in the incarnation of his Son, Jesus Christ (Gospel of John 1:14, Colossians 2:9)
* God is mystically present in the Eucharist, and through the means of grace in the church, the body of Christ (Ephesians 2:12, John 6:56)
* God is sacredly present and becomes known in special places where God chooses to meet us, places that become set apart by the faithful remembering community (1 Corinthians 11:23-29) where it may be said: "Truly the Lord is in this place" (Genesis 28:16, Matthew 18:20)" |
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| #19 Posted 6 months ago | Reply | Can we, like, act mature here?
If not, topic closure soon... |
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| #20 Posted 6 months ago | Reply | | Those who believe in a higher power and those who do not really have no scientific argument to back them up in my opinion. Those who believe in God, or Allah, or whatever (such as myself) have no physical or scientific evidence to support our beliefs, just faith and passed-down tradition. Likewise, those who do not believe in a higher power have no answers to such questions as "How did the Big Bang occur?" "When/how did the creation of life start?" and so forth. This is really an argument based on faith and deep-rooted beliefs, and as such, there is really no debate to be had here in my opinion. |
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| #22 Posted 6 months ago | Reply | HEY GUY BLAH BLAH BLAH MY BELIEFS.
HEY GUY BLAH BLAH BLAH PROVE IT.
WELL IN MY RELIGION--
WELL IN MY RELIGION--
WELL IN MY RELIGION--
WELL IN MY RELIGION--
WELL IN MY IMAGINATION--
WELL IN MY IMAGINATION--
I have no friends.
Me neither.
Edit: And freaking Christ, we're talking about God existing or not and the original topic creator is basically typing with his sheer shit because he thinks that because a pink invisible unicorn doesn't exist, OBVIOUSLY God doesn't.
My stand is that God exists, but I don't think he was a bearded man who cures cancer with his eyesight. I'll worship whatever created this universe. If it was a rock, then it was a mother fucking rock and I don't care what you say. <-- Basis of all religions. |
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| #23 Posted 6 months ago | Reply | ok, you guys are sort\'ve missing the point. i am now going to \"disprove\" all your \"disproving\" statements
1.Santa Claus exists.
Response: santa claus cannot exist because of all the different time zones and the speed he has to travel to get to each house.
Rebuttal: santa claus can control time.
2.An invisible pink unicorn created the universe.
Response:something cannot be invisible and pink.
Rebuttal obviously something that has the power to create the universe cannot be described by our earthly physics or logic.
3.an invisible massless teacup is orbiting the sun.
response: masslessness is impossible.
Rebuttal: see #2.
4. SKIP
5.My hand is actually a bug with six horns.
response: just look.
rebuttal: it could be in disguise. 
I\'m too tired to write any more.
My religion doesn\'t have a god. Go fig. |
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| #24 Posted 6 months ago, in reply to post #1 by Henriksson | Reply | 1.Santa Claus exists.
2.The invisible pink unicorn created the universe.
3.There is an invisible, massless teacup orbiting the Sun. (It can orbit the sun because it doesn't follow laws of physics)
4.The ghost of Elvis haunts my house.
5.My hand is actually a bug with six horns.
6.Hitler decided to make the greatest cake in the world instead of becoming Fuhrer 1 octillion years ago.
7.God exists.
1. Via logic and what we know, can't really disprove him. On the other hand, we can say it's highly unlikely that he exists.
2. Something can be invisible and pink, as long as you take invisibility to be subjective. If something is invisible to humans, does that mean it can't be pink as well? No. There are a lot of things humans can't see. Also, if said "pink unicorn" has the ability to turn invisible to visible and vice versa, and was just invisible at the time of the creation of the universe, then yes it could have created the universe.
3. Masslessness is impossible as we know it, so for now, no.
4. Depends whether ghosts exist or not, then also whether they "haunt" your house. Impossible to disprove.
5. Empricistic response: Just look
Rationalistic response: Is what I see merely an illusion?
Conclusion: Depends on whether you're more empiricistic or rationalistic. Disprovable only through pure empiricism.
6.? That's just kind of silly....
7. Disprovable? Nope. Provable? Nope. |
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| #25 Posted 6 months ago | Reply | Atheists see that there is absolutely no evidence for that, but theists shrug and say that there is no evidence that God doesn't exist and so says theists are just as correct as atheists.
It's true that you can't disprove that there is an invisible pink unicorn or mass of spaghetti or what have you watching over us. Make up any deity and no one can disprove its existence because there's always circumstances like Ohhh the unicorn is invisible, that's why you don't see it and therefore don't think it exists etc. etc. But I believe that atheists have logic and reason supporting them. I'm an atheist and I feel as though I know for a fact that there is no supreme being, because it seems as though "prophets" invented religions and people follow because they want to believe that there is life after death and that there is someone always watching over them. It's painful to think otherwise, but you can't hide from the truth. No offense to anyone religious, everyone's entitled to their beliefs. |
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| #26 Posted 6 months ago, in reply to post #15 by Henriksson | Reply | Flaw: If God created and sustains everything, then it would be impossible for God to defy the laws of physics because, quite frankly, whatever He does in the universe is completely natural.
In other words, we call miracles and wonders "supernatural" ... however, considering the above, then the occurence of these things, be they common or rare, are de facto "natural" by definition...
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@Nina: I take no offense to your religious views (to use the term broadly) ... however, moving aside from religious beliefs for a second, I do think it is unfair for you to imply that those who do believe in God do not have logic or reasoning.
I know it's a common thought, although most common amongst those atheists of the Dawkins persuasion (I am not suggesting that you are one, just pointing out where this view is most common), that all people of faith are deluded, narrow-minded, unreasonable, bigoted, illogical, unintelligent etc... whereas all people of science are enlightened, broad-minded, have the ability to reason, are unbiased, have the ability to use logic and are intelligent.
However, this is a gross misgeneralisation (yes I said that, lol), and especially rich coming from those atheists who have been affectionately termed "militant"... The above paragraph in and of itself is highly bigoted and narrow-minded... it's a simple "us and them" argument, trying to split the world into a stark contrast which, really, does not fit with the way the world is...
Theists and Atheists alike seem to be using different definitions of the terms "broad minded" and "narrow minded"
- Some theists (typically the "militant") think that atheists are narrow-minded because atheists (typically the "militant" ones) are so focused on science and the physical, that they do not open up their minds to the possibility of the existence of the spiritual
- Some atheists think that theists are narrow-minded because they believe that theists reject science and understanding, instead turning to superstition. In other words, they do not open their minds to the existence of the physical, and focus purely on the spiritual.
The strange thing here is that both can be true... yet both can also be false... at the same time. There are thousands upon thousands of highly intelligent, logical and reasonable people who believe in God, and they are not superstitious at all... and probably quite a few of them are scientists themselves, having authority and respect among the scientific community, without having to compromise on their beliefs for the sake of "science". Alistair McGrath, himself a scientist, and former colleague of Richard Dawkins (went to the same University)... is also a Christian. That is to name but one person...
Likewise there are thousands upon thousands of highly unintelligent, illogical, unreasonable atheists...
Please, be more careful when you speak the differences between atheism and theism... These kinds of topics are typically unforgiving in terms of misstatements... While getting things wrong is human, you can be sure that no-one else will allow your mistake to go unnoticed... as I have learned from experience
I am sorry for going on what seems like a rant... but this is the kind of stuff you (generally) will get if you make throw away comments in a topic which has a high flame-risk. I apologise for any offense caused. |
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| #27 Posted 6 months ago, in reply to post #25 by Nina | Reply | I'm on the same level as you, but is there a difference between not believing in God, and not believing in religion? And of course, is there a difference between believing in a God, and believing in 'The Lord'. I'm an atheist, on the grounds that I see chrisitanity, the religion I grew up under, as trying to make you police your every thought and action, supressing natural and healthy urges, all for some crime you didn't commit. It's like making me believe I'm sick...then selling me the cure.
But keeping with the core idea of the thread, that God exists (either as a deity or as a supernatural enitity) simply because we cannot prove it otherwise, is it even worth arguing? Not that I would ruin a healthy debate, but to argue the existance of God with a "It's there because we don't know it isn't" approach simply locks the arguement in a stalemate. Yes, those for God can assume they've proven them wrong, the fact that they're now arguing about whether there's proof for God's existance kind of shows they see it as a believable concept, but overall no total conclusion can be gathered by either stance with this cop out. |
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| #28 Posted 6 months ago, in reply to post #27 by Prodigs | Reply | I'm going have to say here... Christianity should absolutely not have made you feel that way at all... I am shocked that your experience of the church has made you feel like that, and I am really sorry...
The horrific fact of the matter is, a lot of atheists that I have talked to online... most of them American (it's not all that common to find someone from the UK online at all)... are atheist because of a church that had a really unloving attitude... and for that, I can only apologise...
Personally, as someone who was not brought up in a Christian environment, but instead came to faith around 2 and a half years ago... I can say that I never "police my thoughts"... or suppress "natural healthy urges" and in reality, you shouldn't have to...
I can't speak for those people brought up in a Christian home... I can imagine that it would be a lot harder for them to come to faith of their own choice because I know that with my life, there is a stark contrast between how I used to be and how I am now... and it's a really, really good difference... whereas if you are told constantly and having it rammed in like that especially if your parents or local church has very conservative views, you will either reject it, which isn't good... or blindly accept it, which is equally as bad. |
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| #29 Posted 6 months ago, in reply to post #28 by JesusRocks | Reply | Fair enough. I'm not saying a negative experience in christanity can also drive you away from God, if anything it's convincing you not to shy away from him, and with such an overpowering hold on you the very idea he doesn't exist is very hard to fathom. Blind acceptance, as you said.
I personally think the UK has a stronger support in catholism and christianity than America, it's been here since medieval times (no doubt before) and it's the norm, and no matter the school, being an atheist at a young age is considered very bizarre.
Most of my beliefs didn't come from personal experiences, but by my observations on seeing how people were treated for stepping outside of the wholesome christian image. What topped it off were also these pentecostal gatherings, gay reformation camps and just the mind melding effect some groups try to garner on young christians. It just started to become more absurd and reallly just turned me off religion, becoming agnostic, to a point where I couldn't see any point in religion and in believing the existance of an almighty one. But thats just me @_@ |
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